Hi Genaro. Since you got my last ruling ? right. How would you handle this one? Considering they already cheated once there probably going to deny it.

Well, the rules specifically say that any player that fails to leave the table and continues to shoot after their turn is over is guilty of player misconduct. This is a difficult situation for a referee to come into because part of it is subjective.

Here's the crux of the problem: When a referee is not present it is the obligation of the opponent to call fouls, frozen balls, to know what pockets are being called and so forth. If someone's opponent bumps the cueball but their head is turned and don't see it...their teammate can't say "hey, they just fouled" because it's a coaching violation. It's kind of the same here. Spectators can't watch for you and tell you your opponent committed a foul.

However, if you call me over I am likely going to do a brief investigation to gather facts. If this did in fact happen...it is a serious offense and should be dealt with by a tournament official. If a player is devious enough to try this to win...they may try other things as well. Now, a pattern of this behavior makes it much easier to take significant action.

Although it is unlikely in this scenario...I could still impose the penalty if I gathered enough information to satisfy my belief this happened. Let's say there are a dozen impartial witnesses saying they saw this happen. Am I just to ignore that? The ref would have to weigh all those things to come up with a final determination of what they were going to do.

It is each player's responsibility to know the rules and make sure their opponent is also following them. Though I would be very dissatisfied with a player I suspect did do this...I could not disqualify them without some kind of proof. Besides it would kind of reward their opponent...even though they did not fulfill their obligation.

Just to further this discussion.
Lets say this is your team. Your player has his back
turned. The opponent misses. Then decides his opponent isn't looking so he continues. Couldn't you as a teammate, just say hey what the he%^% are ya doing. Its not technically coaching you are not telling your teammate how to play.
I believe in pay attention to your own game. I wouldn't tell my teammate that his opponent fouled. Granted I'd call him a dumba#$ after the match. However, stopping someone from just all out cheating I do not consider coaching.

I agree...such an act is absolutely detestable. That said...here's the rule about coaching:

2.23 OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE PROHIBITED
Unless specifically permitted by the rules of a given tournament, players may not knowingly accept any form of playing advice during a match. A player may not engage in communication, either verbal or nonverbal, with persons other than the tournament officials or his opponent during play, or during time-outs. Should a player desire to so communicate, for example to obtain a beverage, get a piece of equipment, etc., he should either communicate through a tournament official or with the approval and observance of the referee.

If the referee has reason to believe that a player knowingly solicited or accepted outside assistance in any manner regarding the play of a game or match, he shall take steps appropriate under the provisions of "Unsportsmanlike Conduct."

In team or doubles play, communication rules may be altered by the appropriate organization as provided for under "Administrative Discretion".

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The "spirit" of this rule is to prevent individuals from giving advice that might unfairly effect the outcome of a game. I cannot think of a referee that would call a coaching violation for such a situation as you describe. However, just because you saw something like this happen...doesn't mean you can call it for someone else.

Let's be realistic here...no one watches their opponent 100% of the time. We respect our opponents and trust that they will respond in a sportsmanlike manner. The bottom line is that a player misconduct penalty is a big deal and cannot be called unless you're absolutely sure it has occurred. The fact the opponent didn't even see it themselves makes it nearly impossible.

It's too bad anybody HAS to cheat, however it does happen. When shooting a team match at MN ACS, I took my eyes off a game for a brief second. Out of the corner of my eye, I thought my opponent committed a foul. But since she continued to shoot, I thought I was mistaken. I looked over at my team, that looked at me like 'why aren't you calling a foul?' But because I didn't see it, I felt I couldn't call it. I should have asked her after her shot if indeed it was a foul, but didn't. Maybe she would have fessed up, maybe not. Live and learn I guess. I messed up. BTW, this was in the Masters division...

I dont agree with what the person did.
i dont know if it happened or not. (wasnt there)But if it did happen there is nothing wrong with saying who it is. It could only be helpful to all the other pool playing community to know who this person is.

I partly agree Martin, but this board has become to much about slamming people and I'm not into that. I know who it is and so do a lot of others. I would rather say something to there face then to just spread there name around.
I just did that last night with someone at shooters. They gambled with out having the money. So I said something right to this persons face. They had a few choice words, but I don't really care. Just proves to me I don't want to to associate myself with this person.
Eventually they either learn or every one black lists em and they quit. Either way pools got enough problems without using the web.

actually that wasn't me, that was somebody at shooters I assume. I personally think whatever the case I would not have done what this person did, but if you let somebody cheat you because you aren't paying attention its your own fault. What kind of respect are you showing by not even watching while your opponent is shooting? Not saying I condone cheating, but it takes two people to allow cheating to happen.