I thought it was feb 12-15??

The dates for MOMA are Feb 12th – 15th, DECC – Duluth, MN

If my team shoots advanced out of Two Stooges.... will we be allowed to enter this year?

Yes, Two Stooges is a Theisen Vending location and they are a MOMA member. Make sure you play your matches on the vendor owned coin operated tables. If you meet all of the other eligibility requirements you will be eligible for this tournament. If you have any other questions, please call us at 651-636-2022.

Shaun - Is Advanced VNEA Sanctioned? I thought that Advanced was just BCA/M8 Sanctioned. If I am correct then the player would not be able to play MOMA since they are not VNEA sanctioned. Or can you play MOMA without being VNEA Sanctioned?

Am I right or confused? Is Advanced VNEA Sanctioned and I just missed it?


Dean
763.784.9446

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think MOMA had anything to do with VNEA/BCA sanctioning, that you just had to play on the correct tables - i.e. those owned by sanctioned MOMA vendors. Is this incorrect?

I stand corrected. I thought you had to be VNEA sanctioned to play MOMA but that is not the case. All you have to do is play on vendor tables to qualify.

Dean; I hope you are right, but I don't think so. ACE Billiards League can not play in MOMA because we can not get sanctioned even though we play 100% on Vendor table 3 days a week. M8 advanced I do not believe is elgible for MOMA also. I think it is only Triple Crown that has been grandfathered in from the days of Bruce.

Dave

The establishment makes the table assignments. So, how can we be sure there won't be an issue when you have folks within 10 miles who will certainly raise the issue/point?

Sorry, I was looking at Las Vegas dates today and mixed up the month. I was only 3 months off ...

I know this is going to start a little bit of a concern with some players, but I know some places got burned on this in the past. Are the tables your playing on coin operated tables? Are they vendor owned? Or are they owned by the billiard room owner? It makes a difference. MOMA (Minnesota Operators of Music & Amusements) is a group of coin-op vendors. Once in a while there will be a member of this group who will point out a location that cannot participate in MOMA because the tables are not operating on coin-op and in fact may be owned by the establishment owner instead of the vending company. That will make the teams that play out of that location NOT ELIGIBLE for the MOMA State Championships. They did that to Billiard Street not so long ago and Q Sharks as well. Biff's (before Superior Vending) got away with it for years - owning their own tables yet still getting the sanctioning through their coin-op vendor because they did the darts and other vending equipment there.
I know I might be crying "wolf" here, but I'll forewarn those people who like paying the "table time" on billiard establishment owned tables: Don't be surprised if your location gets picked on by a renegade MOMA member and next thing you know your team isn't eligible for the MOMA event. There's a reason we have to plug the tables with dollars and quarters in vendor-owned tables - because that qualifies us for this event. All it'll take is someone to see this as unfair and next thing you know there's another place ruled "ineligible" for MOMA.
Just food for thought......
John Stich
ps: I think everyone should be eiligible to play in these tournaments. I would like to see pool start going in the right direction again..... John

I am pretty sure that all MOMA operators sanction their leagues with VNEA.

I think Dean was right with his first posting. Just because you play on a vendors tables does not qualify you to play at MOMA. If I am wrong then you will be seeing My and Dave's teams in Duluth. Please someone who knows qualify this for all of us. June you may be right if you are playing in a vendors league, but unless I am wrong M8 sanctions only it's Triple Crown Teams for VNEA/BCA/ACS and not the advanced unless they have started something new.

SO SHAUN................ is your posting correct or incorrect?

WE ALL NEED THE STRAIGHT SCOOP!!........

This is one reason players leave. Too many hoops to jump through to qualify for what is freely available in the State for tournaments. Guess I will have to cut my one day a week and hang them up for good. Playing 3-4 nights a week just to get qualified is not economical............. ANYONE WANT TO BUY A Shmelke?

Maybe if your playing with a Shmelke you should hang them up anyways

This shouldn't be that hard to figure out, make a phone call to whoever runs the tournament and find out if you can play or not. This is what's wrong with our country today everybody wants someone else to do everything for them.

THANKS TINY!!

Sold it this morning........

One less pool player in the state of minnesota..................... AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY PEOPLE LEAVE the sport........................

Maybe if there was a list to refer to when these questions come up there wouldn't be so much confusion.

A list doesn't do any good. Decisions like this are made "last-minute" at MOMA meetings when someone in the group has an axe to grind with another vendor. Suddenly they'll call this vendor on the carpet with facts like they don't collect coin from that location's tables so that makes those teams ineligible.
BOTTOM LINE: If you're playing at a place where you are NOT pumping the tables with quarters, you may be in jeapordy of playing in MOMA. It's that simple. Others may tell you different, but that's the price you pay for not using "coin-op" tables.
So the "good deal" you get for paying table time versus paying the coin may not be that good of a deal after all....
Take Care.
John Stich

John, it sounds like you are pretty sure one of the vendors or bar owners is going to do this. The sad thing is - it is the players they are hurting the most.

The only reason I can think of that would make someone do this is to get more players playing out of their location. That would be very greedy and self serving. If this person does indeed follow through, I am sure we players will find out and I for one will be sure to boycott that vendor and/or their location.

Well that's unfotunate John. I guess players will just have to spend their money somewhere else. I know that's what I would do. There are plenty of other choices out there.

I'm not saying that this WILL happen this year, but I'm saying there's a good possibility this COULD happen to any location not following the MOMA criteria of running the leagues on vendor owned coin operated tables. Yes, it is unfortunate that they use us, the pool players, as the pawns in their nasty chess games against other vendors that they have an axe to grind with. But they do. Usually it's the innocent people who get the shaft in the end. I, for one, will keep you all updated if anything transpires and I'll make sure everyone knows who the parties are that are involved. This would not be good for an already struggling pool economy. And, being a higher rated player, I enjoy paying a table time versus pumping coin for every game. I'm sure many of you share that same enjoyment.
Hope to see many of you this weekend in Rochester for the Chalk it up for Cancer Research pool tournament. Take Care. John Stich

What a spin ... This almost sounds like the political adds I have been listening to on TV for the last 6 months or longer ...

I wonder if MNACS could benefit from discrediting MOMA? As MNACS President, what do you think John?

Actually June, nobody benefits from moves like this made by the vendors. It instills distrust in the players and we really don't need that. We have nothing to benefit from it. I was just trying to pre-warn people so they are prepared when something happens. Maybe I should just keep shut and let people get screwed over (again). But believe it or not, I care about the sport I've spent the last fifteen years promoting. And sometimes my caring goes totally unrewarded, but I don't care about that. I just care about my friends not getting screwed over by something beyond their control.
***I'm John Stich and I approve this message...***

Now I am interested - Have you actually been to the MOMA meetings and know how this is how it is actually done or are you making a few assumptions?

I am just trying to find out the facts ...

I was just going back and looking at your post a few messages ago. I thought this a couple of years ago when I knew it happened and I still think the same thing now. Isn't it the vendor's resposibility to make sure that they follow MOMA's rules for playing on coin operated tables if they want to be part of MOMA's tournaments? This rule has probably been in place for a long time now, right? I would imagine that some places just got by without following the rules for a while. If someone doesn't get to play, it would seem to me it is the vendor's fault, not MOMA. I felt bad for the players that didn't get to play, but I thought that they should have been talking to their vendor.

I am sure that you will let me know if I am missing something about this rule, John.

Yeah June, you're missing some vital information that I am privvy to.... I'll be at shooters tonight playing M8. If you wanna talk to me there I'll be glad to. Otherwise give me a call 507-210-7558 and I'll let you know what I know... I don't think I'm gonna keep airing things on this bulletin board regarding this stuff because I'm getting hung out to dry for trying to share information with some uninformed pool players and friends. You might not even like me, but believe me, I still care about you pool players and the future of our sport.... I just don't wanna see people getting screwed over battles that we have nothing to do with.... John

I am also trying to support the state pool organizations, just like you are saying you want to do. If something comes up on the BB that doesn't seem right, I think that it should be the player's responsibility to ask questions and this should be the place to do it. I would hate to see players stop going to an event just because rumors are going around. It sounded like players were ready to jump just because of this thread. I couldn't see anything contructive was going to come out of this thread. I am not saying that MOMA is perfect, but I am still going to support it at this time.

The problem with the operator is, they are looking to see how much money they make. They aren't going to take the responsibility to say that you are sanctioned for this or that....they will be happy with the money they make off of you in that short run. Hopefully the operators have selected a decent enough pool coordinator to pass this information along to the participants.

operators = business owners = greed = always looking to profit

pool coordinator = numbers = satisfied participants = higher wages

Obviously the best league to play in would be the one that gets you sanctioned for the most tournaments around. It is absolutely ridiculous that you can't play in one league and be sanctioned for everything!! Isn't that the reason to play leagues...sanctioning?

It sucks when you have to play 3 leagues to be able to play in the 6 or 10 or maybe 10 tournaments that you need to be sanctioned for. IF somebody was smart, IE wants to make money, previously described as operator above, you would start a league system that sanctions you for all the tourneys. ****, rocket science!

MOMA, ACS, BCA, 7 states, M8, WAMO, I am sure there is more.

If you people spent as much time playing pool as you do on pool politics, arguments, and taking uneducated stabs at people's personal lives, you'd all be at the US Open on the winners side right now.

Oh wait, how many MN pool players are on the winners side of the US Open? 1? Maybe we should follow in his footsteps. I don't think Beau plays in leagues nor does he care about the politics. He has side stepped all that BS that comes with it and continues to become better. I give credit to the other guys for stepping up and going out there. Especially in the hard times of the economy.

Going back to an older post I had. Maybe more people would step up and hit these big tourneys up if we promoted better pool in our area. All we hear about it where are the handicapped tourneys or what ability level am I. Maybe if more people stepped up to play the big guns, in a winner break, longer race format, everybody's games would improve and we would see more people from MN going to these pro tourneys for the experience.

It is good that every once in a while you can find tournaments around here that have these "professional" tournament setups.

Pool goes back to straight pool, and keeping your opponent in the chair. Now it is loser or alternate breaks. You don't receive a harsh enough penalty for making a mistake. Worst case scenario, you will shoot in a game or two. Too many pool players don't know what it is like to have 4-5-6-7 racks run on you without having an open shot or being in the chair while somebody runs 50-75-100+ balls in straight pool. Those are reasons why the top players in MN make better judgments at the table than the rest of the state. I know I am just throwing all of this into the wind because we need to support the weaker players to keep the numbers up and everybody happy. The original idea of strong competition has been taken over by the idea to equalizers and give everybody a chance.

I rarely post on this site but I'm having lunch so here goes. A couple of misconceptions that I see in the last few posts that I'll clear up.

There is no way possible right now, or in the near future to be sanctioned for BCA, ACS, MOMA, WAMO, 7 States, M8 and whatever else. I've been talking recently with Craig from C&N because they run the 7 states tourney. They will not allow M8 players into a C&N event and the same goes for the other way. When vendors allow m8 players into their year ends (which many vendors do and have done in the past) if people find out, they get all worked up. It wouldn't make much sense to put on a tournament that breaks even unless you use it to promote your pool leagues like C&N does. It's a carrot that you have to play C&N to get.

Beau plays leagues. He plays out of the Endzone on Mondays M8 league that travels between there and Shooters.

I honestly feel that the solution to this problem is less tournaments not more. If you could only play in one or two year end events, you wouldn't miss those for anything. But because people like me are eligible for 7 or 8 year end events, we have to skip some of them. Thus the tournament field for an event like BCA might draw 40-60% of the 'usual' tournament participating crowd.

But if we had two events, each one would draw numbers in the 80-90% range. Then those two tournaments could have their pick of host locations and be able ask for more added money. They wouldn't have to resort to handicapping to draw more players. They wouldn't have to have round robin formats because of small fields. They couldn't be pushed around by casinos, they would be in the driver's seat. Best of all, we would have definite state champs with no room for argument.

That's just my humble opinion. But I feel "I'm either onto something or on something".

Now I'm really confused.....so if I am understanding correctly, if I play M8 on tables that are operated by, FOR INSTANCE ONLY, Superior Vending, AAA, etc., that does not qualify me for MOMA - even though I know that SV is part of MOMA?????? I thought the entire concept of MOMA was of TABLE OPERATORS, NOT LEAGUE OPERATORS?????? If this is not true and we as players don't really know who participates in MOMA, why doesn't MOMA charge a sanctioning fee like M8 just to help clear the confusion, and we would know exactly what tournaments we are able to play in?

Deb,
If you play in a league run by a vendor that is a member of MOMA, you most likely will be eligible for MOMA. The MOMA group is made up of Theisen, Superior, AAA, Midwest Coin, D&R, C&N, Hazelwood, Twin Ports, Twin States, Mendota Valley, CDL, Stansfield, Eagle, Smitty, W/W Novelty, AWE, Jubilee, Brainerd and Williamson's. There may be some more in Wisconsin or northern Minnesota that I don't know about.

M8 triple crown is the only league system that is allowed to send players to MOMA. But those players have to play more than half of their matches on coin-op tables owned by the vendors previously listed.

These are, what I've been led to believe, the guidelines for eligibility to the MOMA pool tournament. If you play leagues run by the vendors listed on their tables. If you play M8 Triple Crown leagues and at least half your matches are played on the tables owned by the vendors listed above you are eligible. Each player must have 8 weeks or 32 games played prior to MOMA. Your team has to have 3 players from an original team and may pick up more players from other teams within the charter holder's system, but each match played must have at least 3 players from the original team playing.

That is what I have been led to believe and unless something is in the works (not impossible) M8 advanced teams aren't allowed in MOMA at this point.

Find more guidlines and eligibility requirements at: www.moma-ops.org

Again, I have nothing to gain, and I am not out to slander other people. But I have talked to more than one moma rep in the last week and this is what I have been led to believe. I did the checking when I set up my team this year. We play in a location that we believe gives us the most in sponsorship and on vendor tables in a league that sanctions us for the tournaments that we want to play in. If your team didn't do the research before picking your location or league system, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Now on the other hand if you don't fit the criteria for MOMA eligibity and want to play, I'm sure that if you don't raise too much noise about what league or bar you play in, then the over worked and under paid MOMA staff might not notice when they ok your paper work. So, shhhhhhhhhhhhh.

so by reading all these posts, i am going to make a statment and correct me if i am wrong. I am going to use biffs as an example seeing i play there. If you play triple crown/masters we are suppose to be playing on coin operated tables half the season? this would be hard to do seeing they recently just got all new diamonds and have no coin operated tables. So am i correct in assuming all the teams out of biffs are now ineligable for moma? i will make some calls and ask some questions but any and all help is appreciated.

Rob - All the tables at Biff's are vendor owned and operated. Most players playing out of Biff's are eligible for all the major tournaments including MOMA. If you have any concerns or questions please call me.

Thanks,
Dean
763.784.9446

Well they wouldn't have been till you mentioned it. That's what the shhhhhhh was all about. lol

But no, as of right now all of the Biff's teams that play M8 Triple Crown are eligible. Your money goes straight to your vendor just like if you had put it in the table yourself.

The tables at Biff's were owned prior to the sale by the previous owner...... all equipment was purchased/sold to the new owner(s). Seems to me that FULL disclosure is appropriate so that any future conflict of interest can be avoided.

Hello everyone, I don't have the time right now to read all of the posts on this topic - but what I did read was pretty misinformed. First of all, please, if you have questions about what tournaments you are eligible for, contact your league operator directly. If you are an M8 player at ANY level - call us at 651-636-2022 and we would be happy to answer your questions. We will provide you with the necessary information to make the decisions as to what tournaments you are eligible for and want to play in. While it is true that M8 Triple Crown players have access to more tournaments than any other league system (atleast major tournaments) - it is not true that other M8 players cannot play in the M.O.M.A. tournament. The M.O.M.A. tournament is NOT a V.N.E.A. sanctioned event at the current time - maybe this will change some day, but as of right now it is not. The M.O.M.A. eligibility is listed at www.MOMA-OPS.org and there are many vendor operated leagues that are not V.N.E.A. sanctioned leagues that play in this event. Players that want to be eligible for this event MUST play on M.O.M.A. member VENDOR OWNED COIN OPERATED TABLES. In addition to that M8 has contracts with most of the M.O.M.A. members and this contract provides additional tournaments for M8 players to participate in. If you are an M8 player and have questions about this subject, please call us at 651-636-2022.
Thank you,
Shaun

Interested Player - There were no Diamond tables at Biff's pryor to the sale. All 20 Diamond tables at Biff's are vendor owned and operated. There are no tables left from the previous owner.

Dean
763-784-9446

Excellent choice of words. Yes it is true, no diamond tables. I believe there were 10 valleys plus assorted other tables.

HEY DEAN....are you running for policitcal office too? YOU WOULD WIN!!!

Vote for me!

It won't ever get boring. I'll keep it interesting and make it look like anyone can do it!!

Dean

Rule number 1!!!

All players in a M.O.M.A. Pool Association tournament must be from a team in a league run by a chartered member in good standing with M.O.M.A. and M.O.M.A. Pool Association. "Run" being defined as: A league in which the week to week statistics are compiled by the league office of that charter operator/co-op league system or an authorized representative of that charter / co-op league system.

As a Charter memeber....
So, if you play under a charters league system that run their own stats on their own equipment you are covered to play in MOMA.

M8 has a Triple Crown agreement with the major vendors in the Twin Cities. This agreement has nothing to do with advance teams playing on a variety of tables---even if you are inhouse. Each vendor is different when it comes to running their own leagues or having a representative run leagues for them.

Jomama

MOMA is a tournament for Vendor leagues. If you play for a vendor and they are a charter holder in MOMA then you are covered. If you play on vendor equipment and want to find out if you are covered with the league you play for---call that vendor and find out.

Simple as pie... Their number is probably on the equipment.

If you only play for M8 you have to play Triple Crown.