I don't usually lag for the break because it's leagues and I don't really care.

Come tournament time, I would like to see it because I do think it's a skill. It takes the dedication of showing up early and learning the tables as any champion would do and it takes knowing and controlling your stroke. Flipping a coin is pure statistics. If you are the caller and choose the same side of the coin every time you are bound to win the first break 50% of the time.

Ok, I posted already but I'll chime in. Pool players are ultra competitive and argumentative. The coin flip is one thing that there is no argument about. It's either heads or tails.

I can see arguments over the lag that I don't want to deal with. What about if it's too close to call? What if somebody waits almost a full second. What if one ball crosses the center line? What if a ball goes in the pocket? What if they hit each other? What if one bounces off the end rail and the other doesn't and it's close? What if there is table roll? What if there is a dead spot on the rail? What if some debris causes the ball to change course? All of those problems could arise before the match even starts.

No thank you.

We had 2 of Martin's what if's happen last Thursday during a match. The visiting team wanted to lag, and after the first lag they decided it was a tie, and on the second, our players ball table rolled into the corner pocket!! I would usually respond to what if's with if the dog didn't **** in the yard you wouldn't have to pick it up but Martin hit the nail on the head with 2 of his!

That's a good point Martin, but out of all of those issues they hardly or never comes up at the tournaments I have played in. If the ball hits a side rail or goes in the pocket you lose the lag. The only thing and I have rarely seen it happen is that the balls are close after they stop and then someone just needs to make a call on who is closer. Sometimes the lag is just done over if it is too close to call.

k, I think we are missing what I thought was the original purpose of the post. Maybe I'm wrong but here goes. Why is it that when one person under M8 rules says I want to lag and you have no choice? I agree with Alan, shouldn't it be more fair that the home team gets choice?

I played both M8 advanced and Triple Crown for 2 seasons. In Triple Crown, I lagged once and did rock paper scissors once. Other than that, coin flip. In M8 advanced, I lagged at least 4 times in two seasons.

If I'm wrong on your point Alan, please correct me. But I like your idea that it's home teams choice. Or, maybe even it could be whoever puts up first in a round has the choice...???

This is too funny... Don't all of you know by now that Alan is laughing his butt off and seeing how long he can keep this going? He loves seeing how long he can get the posts or thread to go, good topic by the way Al. He loves it when people get mad, especially when their isn't really any reason to be angry.

I think that Grant G. (Aimee's boyfriend - don't want to spell his last name wrong) should chime in on this one with one of his funny anticdotes. Maybe a "real men of genious" or something.

Well I guess I can't leave without my opinion on the lag... Ready? Here it is...

""""" Who really cares """""

It's apart of the game and has been since the game was invented and it won't go away.

Good One Alan!

daxs

I think both players should agree to do whatever they want to determine the break.

Rock, Paper, Scissors, or thumb wrestling, maybe see who can hold their breath the longest.

In M8 it is a rule. Period. If both agree to by pass the rule, then fine, go ahead and arm wrestle or what ever. but if one of the 2 want to play by the rule, then that is the way it goes. End of discussion. It is and always has been a part of the game and I never fault newer players for wanting to do it. I just usually do not want to exert the energy. Yawn.

From the rule book:
2. THE LAG: As soon as both teams have chosen the players for a
set, the players will lag for the opening break. Rules affecting the lag
are:
a) Players lag simultaneously.
b) One player lags to the left of the center string, the other lags to the
right. If a player causes their ball to cross the center string and contact
the opponent’s ball, they have lost the lag.
c) The lagged ball can only contact the rails at the foot and the head of
the table. Any contact with a side rail or the jaws of a pocket is a loss
of the lag. A scratch is also a loss.
d) The ball coming to rest closest to the head rail wins the lag. It
makes no difference whether or not that ball makes contact with the
head rail.

Hey Toke.
There are alot of things that were once part of the game that are no longer. Last pocket, bank the 8, ball in kitchen. Balls were spotted in 9 ball etc...
The lag is hardly ever used anymore. Why have that as the set in stone rule? Rules need to change and be updated ocassionaly. At this time I just happen to think this is a strange rule to have. No Biggie!
This is just a discussion on the lag. Just because its a rule dosn't mean I have to agree with it.

I think some people are missing the point of the question. It isn't whether lagging is OK or not. It's about making it so that there is a guidline for who gets to decide. As it is written right now for M8 there isn't any distinction on who gets to decide that. I agree it should be more specific. Counting on players to decide on their own could cause conflict. Wouldn't it be easier if the rules state Home team decides or maybe the first player thrown?

Actually per Toke's post it seems pretty cut and dry, we should all be lagging for the break per the rules, but 99.99% of the time we choose to skip the rule and flip, or in some crazy instances, rock, paper, scissors it! I think it should go by body wieght, then I would be breaking 99.99% of the time

HELLO! Earth to Angela! Toke just posted the rule!

HELLO, Jer. Read my post again. I wasn't asking what the RULES are. I am questioning if they should state WHO gets to DECIDE.

RUDE MUCH.

Hi Angela,
I think the interpretation of the rule would suggest that there is no decision to be made by just one person. As far as the M8 rules are concerned, you will lag for the break.
In most cases, however, this rule is disregarded and people just want to flip a coin. If one wants to flip, and one wants to lag, you will lag. Doesn't matter which person wants to do which one. You would go by the rule book at that point.
I hope that helps.... I don't want to get yelled at too.....

Hi Ayman, thank you for the polite response. And yes it was helpful. My other question then is why do people who want to lag even ask then? Just say, "We're going to lag" to their opponent. Why imply they are even giving you a choice?

Oh and don't worry, I wouldn't yell at you. I save that for those who chose to post negative insulting replies.

You're right, if you're playing M8 and you want to lag, you don't have to ask. However, most people just assume they're going to be flipping, since the lag is rarely used anymore. In that case you would just tell them you want to lag. I haven't played M8 in a while now, but when I was, I don't think I had lagged for years...
Now please, stop asking so many questions, or I'm going to start answering everything with "just because". ... and if you still persist, I'm going to answer with negative insulting replies.

BWAHAHAH!

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?

Alan,
How about 5 out and the breaks? I probably wont win though so idk.. lol i havent played much pool lately just on friday. ty for the happy bday:)

and by the way ill stick with rock paper scissors :)

The flip is hip! Lags are for fags!!
Stich

This whole thread is too funny... almost clicked out a few times... The point is, people don't want to lag because of convenience. I see more higher rated players wanting the flip over lower rated wanting to lag. Why, I don't know. The flip gives them (lower rated players) better odds to break. Some places I play have only one table and the people we play are lower levels, so it turns out about 1/3 of the time that it's a "discussion" who's is closest. Sorry, but when I live down south and am playing in a Minneapolis bar, I don't care who breaks first. LET'S PLAY! If I'm playing well, I win. If I'm not, I don't. Makes no difference who breaks. If it's a tournament, that's a different story. Whatever the rules are, that's what it is. Period. My opinion (what I deal with) and that's all.

When playing in scotch doubles tournaments when my daughter was 11 we had a unique twist on flipping for the break. She was a gymnast and I would have her do a no hands back flip and challenge the other team to duplicate it or we would take the break. We always got the break. But it was a good thing we never came up against Cindy Anderson or she would have taken the challenge. I am not sure if we would have lost the break or whether we would have been taking Cindy to the local hospital.

You were so LUCKY your opponent wanted to flip on Sunday..... I tried to get them to lag!!!!

Thanks Deb,
I even practiced a couple lags. I was ready!
Your such a good team-mate!

this topic is kinda funny. i agree with the "leagues vs. tournament" thing.

one time... (not even in band camp) i was playing a relatively low rated player in M8 OPEN and they wanted to lag and they said they just wanted to do it for practice.

so... i fired my lag right in the pocket.