True Grace Ministries Message Board
When posting messages on this board, please keep the following in mind:
1. Respect each person's difference in religious beliefs, including the differences in doctrine, style and personality.
2. Only speak in edifying ways in regards to others.
#163 – Sir Isaac Newton, commenting on Scriptures in the book of Revelation wrote
“The degree and duration of the torments of degenerate and anti-Christian people should be no other than would be approved of by those angels who had ever labored for their salvation, and the Lamb Who has redeemed them with His most precious blood.”
#164 – THE PHILOSPHICAL PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL AND REVEALED RELIGION – Andrew Michael Ramsay
“Eternal Providence desires, wills and employs continually all the means necessary to lead intelligent creatures to ultimate and supreme happiness. Almighty Power, wisdom and love cannot be eternally frustrated in His absolute and ultimate designs: therefore, God will at last pardon and re-establish in happiness all lapsed beings.”
#165 – From a letter to Dr. Phillip Doddridge from Henry J. Barker:
“It is so. We read it in the book of God, that word and truth and gospel of our salvation, that as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Yes Doddridge, it is so. The fruit of our Redeemer’s sufferings and victory is the entire and eternal destruction of sin and death for everyone. And is it not a glorious destruction? A most blessed ruin? No enemy so formidable, no tyranny so bitter, no fetters so heavy and galling, no prison so dark and dismal, but they are vanquished and disarmed; the unerring dart is blunted and broken, the prison pulled down and razed. Our Lord is risen as the first fruits of them that slept.”
#166 – THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – Paul Siegvolk
“As the centre of the whole Bible, whereat all its contents aim, is this, that by God in the beginning every thing was created very good; and that by Christ, the heavenly Wisdom, through Whom all things were created, all whatsoever is corrupted through sin, must at last be made good again. So may anyone whose eyes are opened to see clearly into this point, find a great many testimonies of this eternal truth, both in the books of the Old and New Testament.”
#167 – THE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE OF HAPPINESS - Gotthelf Samuel Steinbart
“God can never punish any, more than is necessary for his reformation. He cannot mistake in the choice of His means, and must always reach His end. He would appear less lovely if one creature should be forever miserable.”
#168 – APOLOGY FOR SOCRATES - Johann August Eberhard
“Punishment being an evil, cannot be employed by a good being, unless for ends whose goodness is greater than the evils suffered, and which could not be obtained without inflicting them. God punishes not for the common good only, but also for the reformation of the sufferer; which being accomplished, punishment has no further use. It was designed to influence the love and practice of virtue; and when these are produced, it must give place to the happy consequences of amendment. Punishment therefore, being a benefit even to the sufferer, when properly viewed by him, must produce emotions of love and gratitude.”
#169 – HISTORY OF THE CHURCH – John Le Clerc
“Christ’s judgment will be conducted so that its justice shall be seen by all. For the great diversity of crimes there will be a proportional variety of punishments, whatever they consist in. Aionios may be considered an indefinite duration to which God hath placed no limits known to us, the word sometimes signifying an AGE.”
#171 – PHILOSOPHICAL AND CRITICAL INQUIRIES CONCERNIG CHRISTIANITY – Charles Bonnet
“It will be suitable to the spirit of the whole system of thought to set forth the pains of the wicked as aionion, or rather of an indefinite duration.
If in the Supreme Being, justice be goodness guided by wisdom; if Almighty Benevolence essentially requires the improvement of all intelligent beings; if punishments can be the means of leading to perfection; if there be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth; if there be much love where much has been forgiven: My heart leaps for joy – I am lost in admiration – what a wonderful chain of doctrines! The compassion of the Only Good is infinite – ‘He desireth not the death of a sinner; but that he should turn from his wickedness and live.’ God DESIRETH! – and shall He desire in vain?
The celestial heralds commissioned to celebrate by their hymns the glad tidings, were to instruct these shepherds in the object and the extent of the mission of Christ – on earth peace, good will towards men – GOOD WILL – not towards one single elected nation, but towards all the nations of the world. GOOD WILL – not to one single generation; but to every generation past and to come. The Benevolence of the Best and greatest of Beings includes all mankind, BECAUSE HE IS THE FATHER OF ALL.”
#172 – THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – Thomas Whittimore
“In his book THOUGHTS ON DIVINE GOODNESS, Ferdinand Oliver Petitpierre taught that men are sinners, and God punishes them with severity; but this severity is dictated by goodness, and all the punishments God inflicts are declared to be for the sinner’s good.
How opposed to this is the dreadful doctrine of eternal punishment, and error which grew up under a misconception of the meaning of the word rendered everlasting. God punishes always to reform, a fact which the author establishes with the most irresistible reasoning.
‘These shall go away into eonian punishment’ in which the word rendered punishment, he maintains, quoting the authority of Wittenbach, and Grotius, signifies a remedial, corrective discipline. The infinite authority of God is entirely founded on His goodness.
‘Eternal’ punishment is real evil, an infinite evil, in which everything conspires to exclude from God’s plan of the ages.”
#173 – ERSKINE’S SKETCHES OF CHURCH HISTORY records the words of John Gasper Christian Lavater.
“God is not gracious in time and cruel through eternity. Ascribe not to God, what in a human judge all would account a defect in wisdom and goodness, the punishing for the sake of punishing. It is enough my Creator, Thou art love. Love seeketh not her own; Thou seekest the happiness of all, and shouldst Thou not then find what Thou seekest? Shouldst Thou not be able to do what Thou willest?
My prayers are comprehensive. I embrace in my heart all men; present and future times, and nations, yea Satan himself. I present them all to God, with the warmest wishes that He will have mercy on them all.”
#174 - WHAT IS TRUTH? ABSOLUTE AND RELATIVE – Don Bast (published 2011)
“It has taken me a long time to unlearn the harmful instruction received over many years of indoctrination. It is God’s word alone that is the trustworthy source of truth. The good news of the glory of our happy God (1Tim. 1:11) will expose the error and set us free from the spiritual bondage of man’s creeds.
At the present time salvation is enjoyed only by those who believe; the balance of mankind will be saved at the consummation. A savior is one who actually saves. God is the savior of all mankind, not just the ‘potential’ savior. When the truth concerning the eons displaces the error about eternity, judgment and grace are seen to work harmoniously together till each reaches its predestined goal. All the threats of punishment to follow the judgment of the wicked can be accepted at their full, dreadful value without doing violence to our innate sense of justice, and without denying the predictions of a final victory of grace.
Someday the entire creation itself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God, and is groaning and travailing, even now, in anticipation. We ourselves also, who have the first fruit of the spirit, we also are groaning in ourselves, awaiting the sonship, the deliverance of our body. For to expectation were we saved (Rom. 8:21-24).
Whatever trials and troubles come our way we are assured that it is not a sign of God’s anger or even displeasure. The bond of love we share with God through His Son will never be broken. His desire to please us and be with us never changes. The love of God in our hearts is our steadfast anchor through all the storms of life.”
#175 – MEMOIRS OF THE PRIVATE LIFE OF MY FATHER (James Necker) – by Baroness de Stael Holstien
“Eternal punishment! Power Almighty, can they who entertain such an idea know Thee? Eternal fire for those miserable creatures who have so many combats to sustain, and are armed with such feeble weapons! Power Almighty, Thy goodness preceded our birth, it still subsists, it will subsist after we are cut off by the hand of death.”
#176 – LETTER OF RESOLUTION – clergyman George Rust
“To imagine that man, for his disposition, be kept in a never-to-be-ended doom of intolerable pain and anguish of body and mind, is to fix so harsh a note upon the mercy and equity of the Righteous Judge of all the world, that the same temper in a man we would execrate and abominate.”
#178 – POEM by Soame Jenyns (eighteenth century)
“Oh could mankind but make this truth their guide
And force the helm from prejudice and pride,
Were once these maxims fixed, that God’s our friend,
Virtue our good, and happiness our end.
How soon must reason o’er the world prevail,
And error, fraud and superstition fail!
None would hereafter, then, with groundless fear,
Describe the Almighty cruel and severe
Predestinating some without pretense
To Heav’n, and some to hell for no offense;
Inflicting endless pains for transient crimes,
And fav’ring sects, or nations, men or climbs.
None would fierce zeal for piety mistake,
Or malice for whatever tenets sake,
Or think salvation to a few confined
And heav’n too narrow to contain mankind!”
#179 – DYER’S LIFE OF ROBINSON (eighteenth century)
In a letter to a friend, Robert Robinson wrote
“These believers in eternal torment are never shocked; they never blush; but affirm, ‘This is wise and just, and kind; and it will be more glorious to God to save me, and **** them to endless and unavoidable woe, than it would be to share eternal life amongst us, and we few, though we hate one another here, shall be the happier for the ****ation of the rest.’
Barbarians! What arrogant madness inspires you?
Poor * honies! -- servants that know not what their Lord doth.
O my soul, to such be not thou united.
Cursed be their anger, for it is cruel.”
* (definition of “honies” – “the common man without proper revelation”)
#180 – SERMONS by George Walker (eighteenth century)
“Some have thought that they could not clothe the future punishment of sin with sufficient terrors, and have given therefore, such exaggerated descriptions of them, both as to degree and duration, as in the opinion of many, can no way be reconciled with just sentiments of God.
The future punishment of the wicked does, in God’s nature, suppose a capacity to be relieved of it, of gradually acquiring that better state of mind, and returning inclination towards virtue, which is the first and most desirable end of all punishment.”
#181 – From a letter by John Henderson to Dr. Joseph Priestly (eighteenth century)
“God hath declared that His will is that all should be saved; therefore, the doctrine which forges a contrary will, falsifies supreme unchangeable truth.
Unceasing torments can answer no possible good to anyone in the universe. I conclude them to be neither the will or work of God. Could I suppose them, I must believe them to be inflicted by a wantonness or cruelty which words cannot express, nor heart conceive.
But let this be the comfort of every humble soul, that it hath pleased God to reconcile all things to Himself.”
#182 – LITERARY HOURS – Dr. Nathan Drake
“That sin and torture should be eternal can neither accord with the justice nor the goodness of Deity, and would appear to many devout Christians to convert the God they should adore and love, into a perfect demon. Fortunately, however, an opinion so repulsive is neither accordant with reason, nor the Scriptures.”
#183 – MISCELLANEOUS MAXIMS AND THOUGHTS – William Matthews
“In my childhood I found it impossible to fix my belief in the common notion of endless torments. I discovered there are plain arguments from reason and Scripture against that presumptuous doctrine of endless punishment, and I am now cheered with the rational, Scriptural, and as I think, glorious doctrine of the punishment of Divine justice being eventually subservient to a universal purification and fitness for heavenly habitations.”
#184 – CHRIST GLORIFIED IN THE SALVATION AND RESTORATION OF ALL MANKIND – Francis Leicester
“But the Scripture which crowns all, and the last which I shall bring into proof, is Revelation 5:13. Here all creation is at Christ’s feet, and that not with tears in their eyes, or petitions in their hands, not with crying or supplications or weeping because things were hidden and kept secret; but with joy in their hearts, and praises in their mouths; with melody on their lips, and hallelujahs on their tongues; with looks and countenances full of satisfaction and delight; and their faces, instead of gathering blackness, turning into paleness, or being covered with shame and confusion (as once was the case with some of them) they all now shine as the sun, replete with light, life and love, full of ecstasy and rapture. And that because the book written within and on the backside, and sealed with seven seals, is now opened and unsealed, and all things revealed and explained: their own cases particularly unfolded to their view, with all the ways and means their loving Saviour took to bring them to the situation they are now in, with other miracles of grace and love.
Where then there is universal praise and thanksgiving, universal harmony and love, and both heaven and earth sounding and resounding acclamations of joy and peace, there must be universal salvation.”
#185 – Anna Letitia Barbuald, widow of Rev. Rochemont Barbuald wrote
“Rochemont’s favorite doctrine was the final salvation of all the human race. He preached many sermons on this doctrine, which he defended both in the pulpit and in conversation with zeal and enthusiasm, which his congregation and his friends cannot but well remember.”
Anna further commented, “I think it would be desirable to separate from religion that idea of gloom, which in this country (England) has but too generally accompanied it.
No one who embraces the common idea of future endless torments, that sins committed against an infinite Being do therefore deserve infinite punishment, no one, I will venture to assert, can believe such tenants, and have them often in his thoughts, and yet be cheerful.
Surely this age (the eighteenth century) which has demolished dungeons, rejected torture, and given so fair a prospect of abolishing the iniquity of the slave trade, cannot long retain among its articles of belief, the gloomy perplexities of Calvinism, and the heart-withering perspective of cruel and never-ending punishments.”
#186 – AN ESSAY ON UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION; TENDING TO PROVE THAT THE GENERAL SENSE OF SCRIPTURE FAVORS THE OPINION OF THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND. – Rev. John Brown (eighteenth century)
In UNIVERSALIST MISCELLANY, commenting on that work, William Vidler wrote,
“He considers the genuine import of the words and phrases which are thought to prove the endless duration of punishment, which he contends do not necessarily bear that sense, and he touches upon the usual topics of argument by which universalism has been defended.”
#187 – CONVERSATIONS ON THE DIVINE GOVERNMENT – Theophilus Lindsey
“The doctrine of eternal torments is a millstone that Christians hang around the neck of the Gospel. The words translated ‘eternal,’ ‘everlasting,’ ‘forever,’ and the like, generally signify limited periods of duration.
Everything is from God, and for the good of all. All things, good as well as what we call evil, are appointed by Infinite Wisdom and Benevolence, for the wisest and most gracious purposes for everyone.”
#188 – About Dr. Joseph Priestly, Thomas Whittimore writes in THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM
“He believed that God’s punishment will not be administered with the slightest tincture of revenge, but as a necessary means of qualifying the sinner for a better state of existence, which his present propensities disqualify him from enjoying. It is not the effect of anger in an irritated and avenging tyrant as the abominable tenets of orthodoxy would induce us to think of the Deity, but it is the medicine administered for our good by the Physician of our souls. Nor have we any reason to believe that it is greater in degree, or longer in duration than is necessary to produce the beneficial effect for which it is inflicted.
It was a constant source of great consolation to him that all things exist and move on harmoniously to produce universal good by Divine appointment and direction.”
#189 – In an introduction to his translation of the New Testament, Nathaniel Scarlett wrote
“It has been a means of propagating the doctrine of endless ****ation, which states that God will kindle a fire, and so constantly supply it with combustible matter, brimstone, by His all creating power, as to endure as long as He Himself shall exist; and that the subjects of future punishment, being raised incorruptible and indissoluble, shall for the same period endure burning in the lake of fire, God having no end in view but the endless misery of His creatures.
The editor hopes the translation he has given will help to remove so degrading an idea of God, Who is love; and although He will afflict the wicked in the lake of fire and brimstone; yet He has a great and grand design in so doing – punishment being a means to accomplish an end, and not the end itself.”
EDITOR’S NOTE:
Fourteen other literally (not interpretively) translated Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
#190 – In a letter to a friend, James Edmands (nineteenth century) wrote
“The death of Christ ensured the restoration of all as a result. Men are now in the hands of a Mediator, Who deals with them as rational and accountable beings, and afflicts, whether here or hereafter, only in order to bring them to a deep sense of their own folly, and then restores them to His favor. Those who love and believe in Him in this life, are the first fruits, and those who do not will be the harvest or ingathering.”
#191 – Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)
“God’s justice is, of itself, nothing but goodness; for it rewards the virtuous with blessings, and conduces to the improvement of the sinful. God’s punishment is, in its operation, like medicine: it dissolves the hard heart, purges away the filth of uncleanness, and reduces the swellings of pride and haughtiness; thus restoring its subject to a sound and healthful state.
The necessary chastisements of the Great Judge, Who regards all with benignity, will make mankind grieve for their sins and imperfections, and advance them through the various states of discipline to perfection. Even God’s wrath is full of benevolence towards the human race; for whose sake the Word of God was made man. The chastisements of God are always salutary and instructive, leading to amendment.”
#192 – Origen Adamantius (185- 254 A.D.)
“The end and consummation of the world will take place when all the wicked shall be subjected to punishments. How long each one shall suffer God only knows. The great variety of characters and different orders of beings which now exist, will, through the goodness of God, their subjection to Jesus Christ, and the unity of the Holy Spirit, be finally restored. As the sick must be cured by harsh medicines, so God administers for the purpose of amendatation.
Our God is a consuming fire. He shall come as a refiner’s fire, to purify rational nature from the alloy of wickedness. Rivers of fire are said to go forth before the face of God for the purpose of consuming whatever of evil is admixed with the soul. (Dan. 7:10).
We assert that the Word, Who is the Wisdom of God, shall bring together all intelligent creatures, and convert them to His own perfection. We deny that of all the vices of the soul, there is any which the supreme Word cannot cure. For the Word is more powerful than all the diseases of the soul; and He applies His remedies to each one, according to the pleasure of God. And the consummation of all things will be the extinction of sin.
This may not, indeed, take place with mankind in the present life, but be accomplished after they shall have been liberated from the body.”
#193 – AGAINST THE MANICHEANS - Titus of Bostra (written 364 A.D)
“The abyss of hell is indeed the place of torment; but it is not eternal. The punishments are holy, as they are remedial and salutary in their effect upon transgressors; for they are inflicted, not to preserve them in their wickedness, but to make them cease from their wickedness.”
#194 – Gregory of Nyssa (335-390)
What is the scope of St. Paul’s dissertations? That the nature of evil shall, at length, be wholly exterminated, and divine immortal goodness embrace within itself every rational creature; so that of all who were made by God, not one shall be excluded from His kingdom. All the viciousness that like a corrupt matter is mingled in things shall be dissolved and consumed in fire; and everything shall be restored to its pristine state of purity.
In 1Cor. 15:22-28, the apostle Paul declares the extinction of all sin, saying that God will be All in all. For God will be truly All in all only when no evil shall remain in the nature of things. All evil must at length, be entirely removed from everything, so that it shall no more exist. For such being the nature of sin, that it cannot exist without a corrupt motive, it must, of course, be perfectly dissolved and wholly destroyed, so that nothing can remain a receptacle of it, when all motive and influences shall spring from God alone.
As the devil assumed a fleshly shape in order to ruin human nature, so the Lord took flesh for the salvation of man; and thus He blesses not only him who was ruined, but him also who led him into perdition; so that He both delivers man from sin, and heals the author of sin himself.”
#195 – Didymus, the blind, of Alexandria (313-398 A.D.)
“As mankind, by being reclaimed from their sins, are to be subjected to Christ in the fullness of the dispensation instituted for the salvation of all, and the superior rational intelligences, the angels, will be restored to obedience by correction.
The blasphemy which shall not be forgiven in this age, nor in the age to come, may have been the blinded Jews; and their punishment, that which came upon them when they were delivered up to the Romans, and scattered over the whole earth. They will be pursued with vengeance from the Lord, not for a short period only, but for the whole future age, so that they shall be captives and fugitives, wandering among all nations, and possessing neither city nor country. Nevertheless, as God Who overthrew them is naturally kind and compassionate, He hath still reserved for them a space for repentance.”
#196 – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)
“In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ’s blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other’s promotion.
The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints.”
#197 – AVITUS and BASIL, A GRECIAN (approx. 410 A.D.) together taught
“Future torments are not endless; for although they are called everlasting, yet that word in the original Greek, does not, according to its etymology, and its frequent use, signify endless, but answers only to the duration of an age; so that every sinner, after the purification of his conscience, shall return into the unity of the body of Christ.
The devil himself will at length be saved, when all his wickedness shall have been subdued.
#198 – Theodorus of Mopsuestia (350-428 A.D.)
“All sins will be wiped away, because a true remission consists in the remission not of some sins but of all of them, as the blessed John said: "Behold the lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." This, however, will take place fully in the next world when after the resurrection we shall be immortal and when all the impulses of sins will cease. This is the reason why the blessed Paul also said: "If the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised, and if Christ be not raised your faith is vain and ye are yet in your sins." He shows in this that in the future resurrection from the dead we are expecting complete abolition of sin.
"When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory. O grave, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?' The sting of death is sin, and the strength of the sin is the law." Then will truly take place the abolition of all these: of death, sin and corruption.”
#199 - John Scottus Eriugena (810-877 A.D)
“There will be a conscious return (reditus) and merging of all beings into God. No souls (including the souls of animals) will be left out of this grand return. No one will be ****ed to suffer forever in hell or wither away into oblivion. There can only be a single destination for all: eternal salvation in God, the whole of humanity as in the image of God eventually to be restored to its divine exemplar.
The object of punishment is not the will of the individual himself, but the misdirection of the will, so the result of punishment is the final purification and redemption of all. Even the devils shall be saved. The ultimate goal is deification, theosis or resumption into the divine being, when the individual soul is raised to a full knowledge of God, and where knowing and being are one.”
#200 – THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS – Jeremiah White (1613-72 A.D)
“God’s love demands that all punishment be reformative, Divine punishment is both good in itself, because everything that God does is good, and good for those being punished, because God loves His creation”
#201 – BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
“Passages of Scripture Sometimes Quoted to Prove Endless Punishment
Shown to Teach Consequences of Limited Duration, showing that Christian universalism, or ultimate reconciliation is the true Biblical doctrine.”
Arguably, this is the most helpful link on the internet for people who want to believe that the Bible, (literally, not interpretively) translated, teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.
#202 - AIÓN – AIÓNIOS – (“shown to denote limited duration”) John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
The etymology of the Greek word aionios does not contain the meaning of everlasting.
“THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough
#203 - AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
Regarding the words translated “forever and ever.”
“There are several analogous expressions in the Scriptures which should show the meaning of the words under discussion. In Ex. 26:33 (LXX), tou hagiou ton hagion, "in the holy of the holies." This is similar to the "eon of the eons" of Eph. 3:21. In IKings 8:6 (LXX) we see, eis ta hagia ton hagion, for “the holies of the holies" - similar to "eons of the eons." The "holy of the holies" and "holies of the holies" refer to the tabernacle. Psalm 44:7 says, ho thronos sou ho theos, eis ton aiona tou aionos, "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of eon"-similar to Heb. 1:8. Daniel 7:18: "until eon of the eons" and similar to that of Eph. 3:21, where a singular is followed by a plural, "eon of the eons." In these expressions we see the eons corresponding to the holies in the tabernacle.
While there are many different teachings on the types in the Tabernacle of Moses, it should not be too difficult to see that there were at least five divisions: (1) without the camp; (2) in the camp; (3) in the court; (4) in the holy place; and (5) in the holy of holies. These may be likened to the five eons we find in the Scriptures (past eons, present eon, future eons). The last eon is called the "eon of the eons," because it, like the "holy of holies," is the climax of the others. In Hebrews chapter 9, the Greek text of Nestle reads (margin v. 25), eis ta hagia ton hagion, "into the holies of the holies," and (v. 3), hagia hagion, "holies of holies." Just as the two holy places in the tabernacle are called the holies of holies, so the last two eons are often called the eons of the eons.
As the tabernacle illustrated man's approach to God, it corresponds closely with the eonian times, which also brings man to God. The "holy of holies" was a single holy place. The "eon of eons," a single eon. It was the pre-eminence of the "holy of holies," in relation to the other holy places, which caused it to be so designated. So the pre-eminence of the "eon of the eons" lies in its being the fruitage and harvest of previous eons. The same is true of the "holies of the holies" of Heb. 9:25. They may be likened to the "eons of the eons" of Rev. 11:15; 22:5.”
#204 – A MESSAGE FROM GARY AMIRAULT (owner of the TENTMAKER website)
http://www.tentmaker.org/
http://lovewins.us/
http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/
“Hell is a myth! Jesus Christ saves all mankind. That is the growing view of Bible scholars, translators and Bible publishers. Hell is leaving the pages of many Bible translations.
Bible scholars and church historians are acknowledging that early Christians were taught by Jesus and the apostles that ALL mankind would ultimately be saved. Discover how the heathen concept of Hell crept into the church and then on to the pages of many Bible translations.
Tentmaker Ministries website contains hundreds of articles and books explaining how this happened and its horrible effect on mankind. We also make available many other resources for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry.
Experience your heavenly Father's unfailing love for you. Be set free from the fear that you or a loved one may be eternally ****ed to Hell.”
Gary Amirault, Tentmaker Ministries
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #1
Sooner or later “God will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #2
Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.shtml
SEE
THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #3
GRACE OVERWHELMS
What I perceive to be a basic issue.
People who don't think salvation is 100% by God, not just 100% “provided” by God like to be in the hands of their own "free" will. That is where they feel most secure.
IMO, that is a basic difference between ETers and URs.
Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.
The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control, some sooner, the rest later.
HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 9 - Choosing What Is Choice
http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement009.html
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.
This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #4
ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENT BELIEF VERSUS CALVINIST ETERNAL TORMENT BELIEF
ARMINIAN ET BELIEF - It's as if God says
“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
Christ's apparent mission: To save from eternal torment only those who are lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they die, and also are smart enough to properly cooperate with Him before they die.
CALVINIST ET BELIEF - It's as if God says
"Since there is nothing you can do about it because you are totally depraved and you are not one of the elect, it is obvious that I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."
Christ's apparent mission: To let everyone suffer eternal torment without any say in the matter, except the few He rescues by His irresistible grace.
Robert Southy (1774 -1843) wrote, “In the worst and bloodiest idolatry that ever defiled the earth, there is nothing so horrid, so monstrous, and so impious as Calvinism.”
UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION BELIEF (mine) – God says
“Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, I am going to save all of you from everything from which you need to be saved, including your stubborn will.”
Christ's scriptural mission: 'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world' (1John 4:14).
I worship a Jesus Who will be completely successful in accomplishing the reason why His Father sent Him.
Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"
My advice, don't put your faith in your faith. Your faith may, and probably will be misplaced from time to time, especially if you are having faith in your self.
Put your faith in Jesus Christ instead, because even if He casts you into the lake of fire which is the second death it will include the age-during corrective chastisement that He has promised to everyone who needs it.
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #5
A.E. KNOCH
One of the great Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century was A.E. Knoch.
My attitude towards the frequent threats of believers in eternal torment is summed up beautifully by his response.
An eternal torment critic said "Mr. Knoch and his colleagues will yet have to answer to God for so defiantly opposing the plain teachings of God's holy word."
In reply A.E. Knoch wrote:
"Let me assure our brother, beloved by the Lord, that we fully expect to answer to God for all our acts, and will rejoice to see all that is not of God destroyed by the fiery test of that day. But such threats do not alarm us in the least. We know a God of transcendent grace. It is only natural for one who thinks Him capable of tormenting His own creatures eternally, to seek to follow His example, and torture His servants here and now. Indeed, it would be strange if it were not so.
The character of the God you worship will determine your ways and your words. We trust it will be so with us also, for we would delight to be like Him. Hence, we do not threaten you with His wrath, but commend you to His grace.
Perhaps no sin can be so great as to distort His words and defame His character. But His grace is superbly sufficient, His love is lavish in its long-suffering. It never lapses, but looks longingly for the reconciliation which is the justification and crown of all His ways with His creatures.
So, as we close with the absolute certainty of a reconciliation between us, we anticipate it on our part and throw all enmity aside. We are conciliated no matter what you do. We recall with joy and satisfaction the great truth that, by God's grace, it is impossible for you to enter into condemnation, no matter how much you may offend Him (Rom.8:1) and the still greater truth that we are saved for grace (Eph.2:8). While your words and ways have seemed to us to be offensively unlike His, this only gives greater ground for grace. This of itself justifies them, for grace must have a foil.
We close, then, with a prayer for such an outpouring of His grace on your own head as will force you to feel the affection which is found in Him for all the creatures of His hand and heart." A.E. Knoch
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #6
AION -- AIONIOS
In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God’s plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times. And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words (“ages,” “course,” “end,” “eternal,” and “world.”) to translate this one word.
And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as “ages.”
Talk about confusion compounded!
Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God’s truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?!
Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them. Of course God’s glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture.
No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.
Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
The etymology of the Greek word aionios does not contain the meaning of everlasting.
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #7
ALL IN ALL – A.E. Knoch
A.E. Knoch’s book ALL IN ALL
Richard Condon’s detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey’s criticisms of A.E Knoch’s ALL IN ALL can be read at
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm
They are the very same arguments he used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake.
Regarding the book ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch. In spite of the claim that there are contradictions in it, and in spite of “cult-buster” Don Hewey’s other attempts to discredit it, (arguments to which Richard Condon has responded), ALL IN ALL remains, in my opinion, one of the best of all the many books that I have read in support of the Bible teaching universal transformation.
Don Hewey is a believer in the inspiration of the King James Version. When he accuses A.E. Knoch of "contradicting the Bible," in many cases what he really means is that A.E. Knoch contradicts the KJV, because the Concordant Translation does not rely on the Received Text from which the KJV was translated. Don Hewey therefore also attacks the RSV, the NIV, and other modern translations. For this reason much of what Don writes just doesn't make any sense.
As far as Knoch calling the life that Lazarus will be raised to as it being eonian and unending, it is both. Lazarus will have unending life and that life will allow him to live through the oncoming eons which is called '"eonian life."
But even if Don Hewey’s criticisms had any merit, (and Richard Condon proves they don’t), they would still not detract from the fact that this book proves that the Bible teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.
Richard Condon’s detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey’s criticisms of ALL IN ALL can be read at
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm
They are the very same arguments he used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake.
ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch (222 pages)
Concordant Publishing Concern
http://www.concordant.org/
Introduction:
“The blood of Christ is the basis of all blessing. The purpose of God determines human destiny. It does not depend on our deserts. The plan or process of God during the eons or ages must be distinguished from His purpose which will not be fully accomplished until the eons are past. Herein lies the difference between the teaching of the Scriptures and the accepted creeds of Christendom.
The believer suffers in the current era because of sin, but will be released in the resurrection at the presence of Christ. The unbeliever will have affliction and anguish for his sins in the judgment, but he also becomes reconciled to God at the consummation, through the blood of Christ’s cross. (Col.1-20).
Universal reconciliation is the glorious goal toward which all leads. All of God’s purpose is achieved through Him Who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev.1:8). “In Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him [God delights] to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens” (Col.1:19,20)
The terms translated “forever” and “everlasting” and “never” are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Much in our common creeds is true if confined within the eons, but it is most malignant error when forced beyond the eons.
Since judgment is not eternal, but eonian, we may accept all the solemn threats of death and condemnation without reservation, while happily exulting in God’s grand goal to which all His labors lead: that God may be All in All (1Cor.15:28).”
ALL IN ALL can be read on the internet here
Copy and paste the following url into the server address bar or click on
http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #8
ARGUMENTS
I believe that the Bible teaches that sooner or later God is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches.
I’m just so glad that I learned about the following information because it enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78).
I’m 73 years old now.
People who can love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will not be interested in the following information
Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever?
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html
But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.
Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html
INFORMATION ON HELL AND UNIVERSAL SALVATION
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
Also Google up TENTMAKER, and at the top of the front page type a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage into the search engine. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.
The link to TENTMAKER is
http://www.tentmaker.org/
